TY175 swingarm lengthening

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Greg Harding
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Re: TY175 swingarm lengthening

Postby Greg Harding » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:00 pm

Hi Everyone,

David, I agree suspension preload is very important and overlooked way too often, all the finer points are. Never ceases to amaze me just how many bikes are not set up for the rider. Good riders can compensate, but if you don`t have to, riding is much more enjoyable.

Just following your lead with regards to swingarm lengths and wanted to extend your list. My method of measuring is slightly different, as I am giving shortest and longest dimensions of chain adjustments. Not necessarily in order of manufacture as I think the Italians knew quite a bit about building bikes.


Suzuki Rl 250____375 to 400
Montesa 349_____412 to 432
Honda TL 125____420 to 450
Honda TL 125S___430 to 455
Honda TL 250____435 to 460
Honda TLR 250___440 to 465
Fantic 240_______445 to 470
Fantic 301_______450 to 475
Honda TLM 220___470 to 495
Sherco 2010 250__505 to 525


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gazam
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Re: TY175 swingarm lengthening

Postby gazam » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:02 am

Hi

Can someone give my some tips?

I am tring to remove the swingarm bolt from a TY 175. The bolt spins freely but will not slide out, even after a heavy bashing with a rubber mallet. I need to replace the footpeg bracket, have the replacement swingarm bushes ready to go but the bolt refuses to come out?

Thanks
Gaz



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Re: TY175 swingarm lengthening

Postby David Lahey » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:27 am

The bolt goes through a hardened steel sleeve that the bushes run on. Seizure between the bolt and the sleeve due to rust is very common. The recommended removal technique is to wedge or jack the sides of the frame apart slightly, just enough to get a hacksaw blade in and cut through the bolt both sides of the frame. Bike upside down works well here. Once you get the swingarm out, the sleeve usually come out easily from the bushes.
Yes you will need a new bolt and probably a new sleeve too and maybe new end caps. There are multiple sources to buy those parts from. Some genuine Yamaha and some aftermarket. Have a look on eBay or google Yamaha TY parts


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Re: TY175 swingarm lengthening

Postby Jon V8 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:35 am

I have an early 250 Majesty on the bench with exactly the same problem.I used a 1mm thick, (Thin ! ) cutting disc on a 4 1/2" angle grinder to cut through the spindle just inside the frame edges,works very well.You can get repair kits from here; http://www.tytrials.co.uk/trailandtrial ... TY175.html
But I'm waiting for a needle roller conversion kit being sorted by Wayne Weedon of Billet parts UK; http://www.billetparts.co.uk/catalog/index.php
Should be a much better job.



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Re: TY175 swingarm lengthening

Postby FM350 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:19 pm

Greg Harding wrote:Hi Everyone,

David, I agree suspension preload is very important and overlooked way too often, all the finer points are. Never ceases to amaze me just how many bikes are not set up for the rider. Good riders can compensate, but if you don`t have to, riding is much more enjoyable.

Just following your lead with regards to swingarm lengths and wanted to extend your list. My method of measuring is slightly different, as I am giving shortest and longest dimensions of chain adjustments. Not necessarily in order of manufacture as I think the Italians knew quite a bit about building bikes.


Suzuki Rl 250____375 to 400
Montesa 349_____412 to 432
Honda TL 125____420 to 450
Honda TL 125S___430 to 455
Honda TL 250____435 to 460
Honda TLR 250___440 to 465
Fantic 240_______445 to 470
Fantic 301_______450 to 475
Honda TLM 220___470 to 495
Sherco 2010 250__505 to 525



On older bikes its often very difficult to extend the swinging arm by much, as the motors are derived from road bikes, and dont have the swing arm spindle fitted through the back of the cases. This means a very long bike, if you try altering the steering angle and extending the swinging arm to something like that used on a modern bike.

On a few old 1980s Bultaco's they tried cobbled up swing arm pivots wider than the actual motor, which allowed the pivot point to move forward and a longer swinging arm to be fitted. Not sure this was ever going to work that well though, as I would guess the alterations made an the already weak OE chassis even worse, and any gains would have been compromised by frame flexure.

The exception to this in terms of TS bikes are the forward kick Fantic's, where its quite possible to fit a modern swinging arm, as the spindle fits directly to the back of the cases, and this makes for much improved grip and far better handling.



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Re: TY175 swingarm lengthening

Postby David Lahey » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:55 pm

FM350 wrote:
Greg Harding wrote:Hi Everyone,

David, I agree suspension preload is very important and overlooked way too often, all the finer points are. Never ceases to amaze me just how many bikes are not set up for the rider. Good riders can compensate, but if you don`t have to, riding is much more enjoyable.

Just following your lead with regards to swingarm lengths and wanted to extend your list. My method of measuring is slightly different, as I am giving shortest and longest dimensions of chain adjustments. Not necessarily in order of manufacture as I think the Italians knew quite a bit about building bikes.


Suzuki Rl 250____375 to 400
Montesa 349_____412 to 432
Honda TL 125____420 to 450
Honda TL 125S___430 to 455
Honda TL 250____435 to 460
Honda TLR 250___440 to 465
Fantic 240_______445 to 470
Fantic 301_______450 to 475
Honda TLM 220___470 to 495
Sherco 2010 250__505 to 525



On older bikes its often very difficult to extend the swinging arm by much, as the motors are derived from road bikes, and dont have the swing arm spindle fitted through the back of the cases. This means a very long bike, if you try altering the steering angle and extending the swinging arm to something like that used on a modern bike.

On a few old 1980s Bultaco's they tried cobbled up swing arm pivots wider than the actual motor, which allowed the pivot point to move forward and a longer swinging arm to be fitted. Not sure this was ever going to work that well though, as I would guess the alterations made an the already weak OE chassis even worse, and any gains would have been compromised by frame flexure.

The exception to this in terms of TS bikes are the forward kick Fantic's, where its quite possible to fit a modern swinging arm, as the spindle fits directly to the back of the cases, and this makes for much improved grip and far better handling.

I challenge anyone to find an existing forum posting by FM350 that does NOT contain the word "Fantic" or derivatives of the word


relax, nothing is under control

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Re: TY175 swingarm lengthening

Postby Bully fanatic » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:08 pm

He also forgets to mention the fact that one of those cobbled up Bultacos won the English Trials Championships in 1982 with a certain MR Vesterinen against Fantics. Graham. Ps you could probably say the same about me and Bultacos as well.



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Re: TY175 swingarm lengthening

Postby Mark K » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:22 pm

Bully fanatic wrote:................ you could probably say the same about me and Bultacos as well.
No Graham, I've seen many of yours that are just normal conversation such as this one which appeared in a thread called "How do you like to work on your bike"
Bully fanatic wrote:Hello all. David did you know you can buy Chinese plasma cutters for a couple off hundred dollars and give your arms a holiday. They cut aluminuim very well. Graham.



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Re: TY175 swingarm lengthening

Postby Mark K » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:37 pm

David Lahey wrote:I challenge anyone to find an existing forum posting by FM350 that does NOT contain the word "Fantic" or derivatives of the word

Sorry to ruin your perception David, but it wasn't much of a challenge. Just 2 days ago in a thread in "Trials Talk" Called "Honda TLR 200" he wrote
FM350 wrote:Slightly bigger valve from the XR200 will fit, but you will need to get the seat cut to accept the bigger valve. This will improve throttle response a bit and is something thats worth doing on the TLR.



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Re: TY175 swingarm lengthening

Postby FM350 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:47 am

Bully fanatic wrote:He also forgets to mention the fact that one of those cobbled up Bultacos won the English Trials Championships in 1982 with a certain MR Vesterinen against Fantics. Graham. Ps you could probably say the same about me and Bultacos as well.


Not entirely sure the Bults with modified swinging arm pivots were ever ridden seriously by anyone other than John Reynolds? I know the person who owned the ex works bike which sold on Ebay for £8k a couple of years ago, and he didnt rider it much due to the feeling that it was likely to break in half if ridden hard.




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